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Mpox Discussion Forum: Latest News & Information Regarding the Clade 1b Mpox Virus

A new pandemic

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Dutch Josh 2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2025 at 2:03am
https://afludiary.blogspot.com/2025/04/two-surveys-uk-us-illustrating-publics.html or https://afludiary.blogspot.com/2025/04/two-surveys-uk-us-illustrating-publics.html ;

For those of us who loiter in the echo chamber of emerging infectious diseases, emergency preparedness, or who work in certain farming sectors, HPAI H5Nx is a legitimate public health concern; and while not guaranteed to spark the next pandemic, it is plausible contender. 

But for the vast majority of people - even those who watch the news or scroll social media - it is just one of hundreds of annoying threats they are incessantly bombarded with each and every day. 

In a clickbait driven economy - where the `truth' often depends upon the teller's agenda, and headlines are usually either hyperbolic or deceptive - for many it has become preferable to be selective consumers of information, while tuning out everything else. 

If Timothy Leary's "Turn on, tune in, drop out" was the catch-phrase of my youth then `Turn off, tune out, and drop dead!' may well be the anthem for today. 

At least, that might help explain the results of two recent surveys that examine the public's perception of the risks of avian influenza in the United States, and seasonal flu vaccine uptake among poultry workers in the UK.

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The results suggest many respondents were unaware of simple food safety practices that could reduce the risk of HPAI infection. Over half (53.7%) did not know that pasteurized milk is safer than raw milk, although almost three of four respondents (71.3%) did understand that cooking meat at high temperatures could eliminate harmful bacteria and viruses like H5N1.

Over a quarter (27%) of respondents said they were unwilling to modify their diet to reduce the risk of exposure to the virus, and more than one in four respondents (28.7%) expressed reluctance to take a potential vaccine for H5N1, even if advised by the CDC to do so.
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Rural Americans, many of whom are more likely to work or live in or near livestock industries, were less likely to accept public health measures, including vaccination and dietary changes, compared to their urban counterparts.
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In the United States, Canada, the UK, and many European countries it is recommended that those who work with poultry or swine (and cattle in the U.S.) get the seasonal flu vaccine, even though it is not designed to protect against avian or swine influenza viruses.   

Admittedly, we've seen some (slight) evidence that seasonal flu vaccination might provide some degree of protection against a severe or fatal H5Nx infection, including:

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Despite the UK government's recommendations, the following survey reveals disappointing levels of seasonal flu vaccine uptake (35%) among poultry workers in the UK. Since this survey was voluntary, there may be some bias to these numbers, so these results should be taken with a grain of salt.

DJ, crazy politicians undermine healthcare...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2025 at 2:20am
https://www.northernparrots.com/blog/how-have-pet-birds-been-affected-by-covid-19/ or https://www.northernparrots.com/blog/how-have-pet-birds-been-affected-by-covid-19/ ; Some owners of companion birds are concerned that Covid 19 could be passed from a human to a bird or vice versa. One lady telephoned me because she was worried that the Cockatiel that was to stay with her while its owner was on holiday could pass on the virus.

This seems to be extremely unlikely. The World Parrot Trust advises that “your bird cannot become infected by this strain of Coronavirus and so you cannot get the virus from your birds.”

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https://www.wormsandgermsblog.com/2020/11/articles/animals/birds/covid-in-animals-review-part-8-birds/ or https://www.wormsandgermsblog.com/2020/11/articles/animals/birds/covid-in-animals-review-part-8-birds/ ;This one’s easy. Birds are not susceptible to SARS-CoV-2. 

DJ, CoViD-19 is widespread in lots of (sea)mammals...https://www.wpr.org/news/fish-study-coronavirus-covid-pathogens or https://www.wpr.org/news/fish-study-coronavirus-covid-pathogens DJ, Some fish (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32159234/ or https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32159234/ carp from Wuhan tested positive ???)

https://afludiary.blogspot.com/2025/04/the-role-of-wild-birds-in-global-highly.html or https://afludiary.blogspot.com/2025/04/the-role-of-wild-birds-in-global-highly.html ;

As recently as a decade ago, the ability of HPAI H5 viruses to be carried long distances by migratory birds was still being hotly debated, with many experts claiming birds were being falsely accused (see Bird Flu Spread: The Flyway Or The Highway?). 

While some outbreaks were clearly driven by migratory birds, until recently most birds either succumbed to the virus - or cleared the infection quickly - limiting their ability to carry the virus over long distances (see PNAS: The Enigma Of Disappearing HPAI H5 In North American Migratory Waterfowl).

By 2016, the H5N8 virus had overtaken H5N1 as the dominant subtype, and while it was more adept at hitching rides on migratory birds, it showed few signs of becoming a zoonotic threat.  H5N1 waned, as H5N8 continued to spark major epizootics in North America (2015), in Europe (2016-17), and crossed the African equator in 2017. 


DJ, CoViD weakens immunity-give more room to H5 etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2025 at 2:35am
DJ, CoViD seems NOT to be a factor in the increase of H5N1 in wild birds since 2022...

https://afludiary.blogspot.com/2025/04/the-role-of-wild-birds-in-global-highly.html or https://afludiary.blogspot.com/2025/04/the-role-of-wild-birds-in-global-highly.html (continuation from above);In 2022 we also saw a report from Defra on The Unprecedented `Order Shift' In Wild Bird H5N1 Positives In Europe & The UK, with many species of birds that were previously unaffected, suddenly dying from - or carrying - they H5N1 virus.  A year later, the virus spread into South America, and has been reported in both Antarctica and above the Arctic circle .This impressive global spread has come at a tremendous cost to both the avian population, and a large number of susceptible mammalian species (see Nature Reviews: The Threat of Avian Influenza H5N1 Looms Over Global Biodiversity).

Numbers are impossible to quantify, but hundreds of millions of wild birdshundreds of millions of captive birds, and hundreds of thousands - perhaps millions - of wild mammals have succumbed to the HPAI H5 virus over the past 5 years. 

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What was once almost exclusively an avian virus was now infecting mammalian livestock (cattle, alpacas, pigs, goats, sheep, etc.) and spilling over (and killing) dozens of species of peridomestic animals (cats, dogs, mice, foxes, skunks, along with many marine mammals). 

While surveillance and reporting is spotty at best, we are arguably witnessing the largest, most diverse, and widespread epizootic in human history.  

Even if it turns out that H5N1 doesn't have what it takes to spark a human pandemic, the damage it has done (and continues to do) to our shared ecosystem is incalculable, and the knock-on effects of these losses may not be fully appreciated for years. 

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Nearly two years ago, in Avian Flu's New Normal: When the Extraordinary Becomes Ordinary, I wrote about the numbing effect that comes with the constant barrage of HPAI H5 reports from around the world.

Events that were nearly unthinkable four years ago (e.g. Repeated trans-Atlantic introduction of avian flu from Europe, the spread of HPAI H5 across the length of South Americanumerous spillovers of H5 into mammalian species, and  > 77 human cases in the U.S. ) have somehow become routine. 

While the future course and impact of HPAI H5 remains unknown, HPAI's recent trajectory represents an escalation of its threat level, and we'd do well to take that seriously.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2025 at 2:49am
https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/u-s-nih-study-warns-of-lingering-damage-to-immune-and-metabolic-systems-and-increased-cancer-risk-after-covid-19-infection or https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/u-s-nih-study-warns-of-lingering-damage-to-immune-and-metabolic-systems-and-increased-cancer-risk-after-covid-19-infection 

DJ, My NON EXPERT (!!!!) view/big picture; Both CoViD-19 and H5N1 did show "the impossible" in the last 5+ years...Mpox did surprise us twice-and NOT linking it to CoViD-19 immunity damage seems to me to be "anti-science"...

A complex interaction between several diseases-transport-and several kinds of hosts is ongoing. 

One outcome is H5N1 itself has several (100+ ?) sub-clades/variants...With also an increase of other types of H5 (H5N6/H5N8...limited H5N2) spread and an increase also of H7/H9 flu-types...

Measles (so far specific for humans) is on the rise in many places and also damaging immunity. https://theconversation.com/measles-can-ravage-the-immune-system-and-brain-causing-long-term-damage-a-virologist-explains-252354 or https://theconversation.com/measles-can-ravage-the-immune-system-and-brain-causing-long-term-damage-a-virologist-explains-252354  and also CoViD is diversifying-with lots of new variants. 

Both H5N1 and CoViD may be-by now-mostly spread via (wild) animals, sometimes even without a lot/direct symptoms. 

Again-on the longer run-and because of ignoring the very major risks-both CoViD and H5-flu WILL go global into humans...with lots of other diseases also increasing. 

A major risk may be in lack of immunity defense. A "very remote health risk" (maybe even in some plants...) may find the right receptors AND a lack of immunity to become a "disease X" mega-killer. 

DJ-Climate collapse only can be stopped by nature-humans are NOT doing anything rational...Pandemics/nature do not need humans for most diseases...ignoring risks is inviting disasters...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2025 at 9:16pm
https://x.com/JusDayDa/status/1914756191219294609 or https://x.com/JusDayDa/status/1914756191219294609 ;
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Idaho Avian Flu in Cattle saw its current outbreak begin in late February (about a month earlier than 2024 outbreak, but aligned with beginning of wild-bird-migration across the state) A large bolus of birds migrated on March 25th, 2025 which may have accelerated the spread 1/5
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Idaho and California are the two largest areas of currently documented infected cattle, however there is likely significant bias in monitoring and reporting across the US. 2/5
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2025 at 9:18pm
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Any area of the country which is in peak migration coupled with drought (driving birds to water holes surrounded by critters of all local kinds, including wings, wheels and walkers) 3/5
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If local drought persists, then we expect to see spread of Avian Flu in the areas below in Brown (and see next slide) 4/5

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Areas in color are the highest risk of Avian Flu spread during migration. Farmers... watch your cats, they are your sentinels for infection on the farm. 5/5
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2025 at 9:25pm
DJ, Copying from x/twitter to this-once a-forum is a problem...

The above posts link drought to spread of H5N1 at places were wild birds/other animals drink water...much more concentrated then in a "normal/wet" year...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2025 at 7:50am
https://afludiary.blogspot.com/2025/04/emerg-microbes-inf-risk-assessment-of.html or https://afludiary.blogspot.com/2025/04/emerg-microbes-inf-risk-assessment-of.html ;Over the past couple of decades it has become increasingly apparent that the first influenza subtype you are exposed to makes a significant and life-long impression on your immune system
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Age-stratified analysis indicated that all serum specimens with detectable cattle H5N1 nAb were obtained from individuals aged 60 years or above, while none of the 120 individuals aged between 0 and 59 years old had detectable cattle H5N1 nAb. Our results suggest that immune imprinting due to childhood exposure to H1N1 or H2N2 may elicit nAb that cross neutralize H5N1.
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As Maggie Fox explained last year in SCI AM - A Bird Flu Vaccine Might Come Too Late to Save Us from H5N1, our pharmaceutical options during the opening months of any pandemic will be limited. Which means - unpopular as they might be - NPIs (non-pharmaceutical interventions like masks, social distancing, etc.) will once again become our first line of defense.

DJ, NPI offers protection against a lot of health risks !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2025 at 8:04am
https://afludiary.blogspot.com/2025/04/preprint-estimates-of-epidemiological.html or https://afludiary.blogspot.com/2025/04/preprint-estimates-of-epidemiological.html ;

While we often hear that there is `no evidence of human-to-human transmission of H5N1 in the United States', it is a statement deserving of an asterisk or three.   
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To that, we can add reports of limited transmission of older HPAI H5 strains, making it is more accurate to say `there is no evidence of sustained or efficient human-to-human transmission' of the H5N1 virus. 

Twenty-two years ago this month the world's attentions were focused on a different avian flu virus - HPAI H7N7 - which was spreading rapidly through hundreds of poultry farms in the Netherlands, infecting scores of farmers, and which killed a local veterinarian. 

While the subtype (H7), and the livestock (poultry), were different, this outbreak has some similarities to the cattle/poultry HPAI H5N1 outbreak we've been following for more than a year in the United States. 

In both cases, hundreds of farms were affected, and roughly the same number of people (U.S. 77, Netherlands 83) were confirmed as infected, with conjunctivitis being the major symptom reported. A handful of more serious infections (and 1 death) were reported in each country.

Of course, there are differences.  In the Netherlands, through rapid culling, the outbreak was quashed after a little more than 2 months, while the outbreak in the United States continues after more than a year.  

And in the Netherlands, a concerted effort was made to test as many people as possible for antibodies to the H7N7 virus, in order to better understand its spread.  An analysis (by the RIVM), found the spread of the virus to be much greater than originally reported. 

It is estimated that at least one thousand persons were infected with avian flu during the outbreak in the Netherlands in 2003. One-third of the poultry farmers whose holdings were cleared reported stress reactions, fatigue, and depression.


The extensive spread of the virus to humans underscores the importance of measures to prevent poultry-to-human transmission among people handling infected poultry. The possible uncertainty, stress, and anxiety associated with avian flu control demand specific health care attention. A total of 453 people reported symptoms, predominantly conjunctivitis.


Antibodies were found in 59% of family members of infected poultry workers. Of the 500 tested persons who had handled infected poultry, about 50% showed an antibody response.

An outbreak of highly pathogenic avian influenza A virus subtype H7N7 began in poultry farms in the Netherlands in 2003. Virus infection was detected by RT-PCR in 86 poultry workers and three household contacts of PCR-positive poultry workers, mainly associated with conjunctivitis.

(SNIP)
In conclusion, our study suggests that human-to-human transmission of HPAI A/H7N7 can occur within household contacts in the absence of contact with infected poultry.

Even if we discount the possibility of human-to-human transmission, the scope of the 2003 outbreak was at least 10 times greater than initially reported. Which, based on previous estimates of outbreaks of novel flu, is likely a low-ball number. 

All of which brings us to a preprint (awaiting peer review) of a rapid review of the epidemiological parameters (R0pathogenicity, serial interval, etc.) of H5N1 based on current data and previously published studies.

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Preview PDF

Abstract

Background The ongoing H5N1 panzootic in mammals has amplified zoonotic pathways to facilitate human infection. Characterising key epidemiological parameters for H5N1 is critical should it become widespread.

Aim To identify and estimate critical epidemiological parameters for H5N1 from past and current outbreaks, and to compare their characteristics with human influenza subtypes and the 2003 Netherlands H7N7 outbreak.
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Results From 46 articles, we identified H5N1’s epidemiological profile as having lower transmissibility (R0 < 0.2) but higher severity compared to human subtypes. Evidence suggests H5N1 has a longer incubation (∼4 days vs ∼2 days) and serial intervals (∼6 days vs ∼3 days) than human subtypes, impacting transmission dynamics. The epidemiology of the US H5 outbreak is similar to the 2003 Netherlands H7N7 outbreak. Key gaps remain regarding latent and infectious periods.

Conclusions We characterised critical epidemiological parameters for H5N1 infection. The current U.S. outbreak shows lower pathogenicity, but similar transmissibility compared to prior outbreaks. Longer incubation and serial intervals may enhance contact tracing feasibility. These estimates offer a baseline for monitoring changes in H5N1 epidemiology.
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Despite these insights, data on H5N1 infections remain sparse and critical gaps remain in our  understanding. Addressing these gaps and continually monitoring the epidemiology is imperative to enhance our preparedness and assess whether the risk from these viruses is potentially escalating.  

DJ, Two major differences; 
-CoViD immunity damage may see a higher infection risk. Also in NL flu-vaccines may be more accepted in at risk groups-2003 then they are in the US-2024
-NL did take the risk very serious. NL NEEDS to export most of its agri-culture products. The US is mainly producing for US consumption. 

If the TWO MONTHS !!!! NL H7N7-2003 outbreak had around 1,000 people infected-with lots of controls, testing, info...the US H5N1 crisis-ongoing for TWO YEARS !!! very likely will have a much higher number of cases...

Also spread into other species will be a much bigger factor in the present US H5N1 crisis...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2025 at 11:50pm
DJ, https://www.corona-lokaal.nl/locatie/Flevoland/waterzuivering/Flevoland or https://www.corona-lokaal.nl/locatie/Flevoland/waterzuivering/Flevoland In NL a few urban regions see an increase of CoViD in waste water-the national number however is still low. 

https://www.rivm.nl/en/coronavirus-covid-19/current/weekly-update or https://www.rivm.nl/en/coronavirus-covid-19/current/weekly-update ;

Since the end of 2024, the amount of SARS-CoV-2 detected has been low across all sources. In week 15 (7 - 13 April 2025), the national average viral load detected in wastewater surveillance increased slightly (20%) compared to the week before that. However, levels of virus particles in wastewater are still low.
SARS-CoV-2 was not detected in any of the 16 samples taken last week from some of the patients who saw their GP for respiratory symptoms
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https://www.rivm.nl/mazelen/actueel or https://www.rivm.nl/mazelen/actueel 
DJ, NL measles in 2025 310 cases-25 new cases in the week of 16-23 april. 

Still cases are only in a limited number of regions/clusters. Worldwide "2025 is an active CoViD year"...
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NL still did NOT see Mpox clade lb. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023%E2%80%932025_mpox_epidemic#Reported_cases_and_casualties or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023%E2%80%932025_mpox_epidemic#Reported_cases_and_casualties 

H5, H7, H9 (etc) is a global problem. The virus may be in over 100 species. Most countries seem to downplay/ignore the risks...
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US anti-vax stupidity may block mRNA flu vaccines offering protection also against H5N1. Since "saving costs on care, education-to spent more on anti-BRICS+ wars" is the west strategy the world keeps moving in the wrong direction. 
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